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{"contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}

The Devil We Know: Obama among the Muslims

News Type: Opinion — Thu Jun 4, 2009 12:03 PM EDT
world-news, obama, egypt, saudi-arabia
BlaiseP

Edirne Turkey: a woman gazes up at the word "Allah". Image Wikimedia Commons

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A lanky young President Obama steps off Air Force One into the shimmering heat of Riyadh and is presented with a 21 gun salute. The Saudi National Guard snaps to attention, the obligatory walk down the red carpet and our president rides the escalators to the Royal Reception Room for consultations with King Abdullah.

Obama's carefully-prepared remarks mention Saudi Arabia is where Islam began. His deft and accurate pronunciation of "shukhran" = thank you, belies his aw-shucks attitude about foreign languages: he claims he never learned one. Yet I think he's more than parroting a phrase: Nicholas Kristof heard him recite the Adhan, the Islamic call to prayer. By all accounts his accent is good. I remember wrapping my own mouth around the tongue-twister: الصلاة خير من النوم = alsalatu khayru min annawm = prayer is better than sleep.

Our president was just a little kid in Indonesia, but he's read the Qu'ran in Arabic, aloud, and the Adhan is engraved into his brain, as it is into everyone who has ever heard the call of the muezzin in Muslim lands. Obama says the Adhan is the most beautiful sound at sunset.

Yesterday, our president gave a 55 minute speech, replete with many kind words for Islam. The Muslims are not impressed. They heard the same sort of thing from George W. Bush after 9/11. Already, Barack Obama has begun to renege on many of his early promises: closing Guantanamo proved more than he'd bargained for and neither Iraq nor Afghanistan shows much improvement in the larger scheme of things.

Barack Obama said Islam was not the enemy. This is not true. Islam makes no apology: its aim is to subdue the entire world to itself. Islam has not given a square inch of ground, has not allowed for freedom of religion anywhere under its control and has firmly opposed the separation of Church and State.

I fear Barack Obama lacks the fundamental awareness of how serious the threat of State Islam has become in the world. His only exposure to Islam was in Indonesia: he was never obliged to live under shari'a law. Seen from afar, Islam is a simple, cleanly, abstract religion almost entirely devoid of theology. Seen from within, it is not a whit different than Christianity at its worst, when Europe nearly destroyed itself in internecine religious wars. Islam, as I have said times without number, is more a political system than a religion.

We in the West see the world through the lenses of the Reformation and all that followed. Napoleon imposed secularism on Europe and where he conquered, we in the West reaped the benefits. Our own country, the United States, resolutely opposed the commingling of Church and State, for we had seen religious persecution under the British. We were founded on the principles of Freedom of Religion and therefore became the most religious nation on earth.

Islam makes no such allowances. Islam demands tolerance and special dispensations for itself in the UK and the USA. The French endured the worst of the predations of the Church: their Revolution was a direct repudiation of the Church's power in the affairs of men and are far less willing to tolerate Islam's shrill demands.

I am a Liberal Democrat and a Christian: thus I style myself. One of the reasons I rejected the Republican Party was its disgusting tendency to cuddle up to Moral Majorities and factions of intolerance. Yet more than Democrat, I am an American. To be an American is to maintain a healthy distrust of both Church and State. Though I will argue with them, I believe the Atheists are the canaries in the coalmine: their view of Religion is the only sane and impartial one worth considering.

Our president is a kindly man, well-travelled and urbane. He is a man of the world: a man seemingly predisposed to extend the hand of friendship to any who would take it. Yet Obama must realize State Islam is not America's friend and can never extend anything but the bony finger of invidious blame and the quarterstaff of tyranny. We remain the Great Satan, the Crusader, and we cannot be otherwise: for we are a secular state.

Statecraft being what it is, Obama chooses his words carefully. He used the phrase "Muslim communities", a prudent and meaningful combination of words. He knew exactly how it would be translated into Arabic, probably working forward and backward through the Arabic and English until he had it nuanced to his satisfaction. The Islamic State is antithetical to the USA and its interests.

It is the cruelest of ironies to realize the legacy of our adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan have led to the formation of two more Islamic States. My previous blog entry alluded to both Iran and the USA failing to export their revolutions. After Bush the Wiser's war in Iraq, he leaned on Emir Sabah of Kuwait to democratize just a bit, and he did. The results were terrible: now Kuwait is more conservative, more repressive. Americans believe our forms of Democracy are best and it is not always true: democratic elections in Gaza and Lebanon are producing majorities for both Hamas and Hizb'allah. Without the institutions of a free press, independent judiciaries and the separation of Church and State, we now see tyrannies of the majority and Islamic courts.

Islam is sick and tired of the so-called Islamic State. As much as we hear from Islam about our support for Israel, darker and angrier voices are muttering about our support for the tyrannous Saudis and Mubarak of Egypt. We have always supported them, they are the Devils We Know.

I cannot say where all this will lead: Obama means well and everyone knows it. I fear he will, like so many other well-meaning idiots, fail to take the threat of State Islam seriously. State Shinto perverted Japan into a nation of xenophobes, suicidal maniacs and cruel overlords. State Islam is no different, and our president should know it.

{"contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
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{"commentId":7460838,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
Steve Watts

Barack Obama said Islam was not the enemy. This is not true. Islam makes no apology: its aim is to subdue the entire world to itself.

I stopped reading there. Let me know when you form a cogent political argument that doesn't rely on falsehoods and scare tactics.

{"commentId":7460838,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
  • 22 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
{"commentId":7460993,"authorDomain":"blai"}
BlaiseP

Yeah. I can only imagine. I'm currently dealing with several Iraqi Christians who were burned out of their houses in Baghdad.

{"commentId":7460993,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
  • 20 votes
#1.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
{"commentId":7461451,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
Bill Harrison

Splendid analysis as always:

To be an American is to maintain a healthy distrust of both Church and State.

Truer words never uttered.

I seeded the text of the president's speech in Cairo from the New York Times today and will append my comment on it here:

After reading the text of the speech twice it is indeed a fine -- speech. But it's also illustrative of several problems that mere rhetoric will not surmount. One, the president speaks of "Islam" as if there were some central authority within that religion when clearly this is not the case as the division between Shiites and Sunnis and the division between Salafist Sunnis and moderate Sunnis attests to. Two, the economic outreach to the Muslim world is also of great importance especially in increasing literacy and the like but I would point out to the president that the most dangerous people in the Muslim world are hardly economically deprived illiterates. Indeed, Dr. Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden are both sons of well to do, well-educated Muslim families but that did not make their abhorrence for what we view as liberal democracy any less malignant for within the ancient city in which the president spoke there also arose the legacy of the Muslim Brotherhood and the movement it's founder Sayyid Qutb promulgated that now finds its expression in the likes of al Qaeda.

So indeed Mr. President this was a fine speech but the gap between the rhetoric and reality is as yawning as the ocean that separates the United States from the continent on which the speech was given.

{"commentId":7461451,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 13 votes
#1.2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 1:09 PM EDT
{"commentId":7461684,"authorDomain":"blai"}
BlaiseP

Heh. I put this up on DKos and was quickly subjected to the Hot Flames of Indignant Liberals.

What's the problem with recognizing our own problems in the "Christian" West vis-a-vis Christianity are exactly congruent with the "Islamic" World's problems with Islam? Religions can edify a man's soul, they can also destroy his country.

{"commentId":7461684,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
  • 16 votes
#1.3 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 1:18 PM EDT
{"commentId":7461816,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
Bill Harrison

I simply wish more people here possessed your vast storehouse of both historical erudition combined with practical experience living amidst the cultures under consideration. As we've discussed many, many times Islam has never undergone the type of auto-da-fe the Christian West suffered during the 17th century when much of central Europe was depopulated during the Thirty Years War. This is not a war "we" can win. It's a war within Islam and the outcome of that struggle is as yet unsure.

{"commentId":7461816,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 12 votes
#1.4 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
{"commentId":7461997,"authorDomain":"blai"}
BlaiseP

The oddest, saddest aspect to this Islamic State is how well it began: with the first notions of war crimes and noncombatant civilians. Women obtained rights for the first time, especially the right of divorce. I will not stand up to praise Islam overmuch, for its record in modern times is abysmal. Yet far worse are the Islamic States, especially Pakistan, which blows hot and cold regarding the worst of the Islamists, the Taliban.

We are faced with Hobson's Choice: the amoral cruelty of the Strong Men (Mubarak, King Abdullah, Bashar Assad, et. al.) or the fanatics. It just didn't have to play out this way. I sincerely hope Obama can make some headway, but at present time, I wouldn't give him a snowball's chance in Hell.

And many thanks for your kind words, Bill. They mean much, coming from you.

{"commentId":7461997,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
  • 13 votes
#1.5 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
{"commentId":7462182,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
Bill Harrison

Thank you my friend. I ponied up $100 for a year's subscription to Stratfor. Rumor has it that certain minds in the ISI have been concentrated but the extent of that concentration and political unity which must gird it remains quite uncertain. And as an aside, I might add that the notion of a fair and free press in most of the Muslim world is just that -- a notion. Not sure if you saw it or not but a rumor started in an Arab publication that Cheney had a "secret hit squad" that assassinated Benazir Bhutto. Then that "story" was picked up in the Pak Nation and confirmation attributed to Sy Hersh. Hersh utterly condemned this scurrilous rumor but to my knowledge Nation never retracted it.

{"commentId":7462182,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 11 votes
#1.6 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 1:35 PM EDT
{"commentId":7462567,"authorDomain":"blai"}
BlaiseP

Pakistan is a sham, a gigantic hoax, an enormous nothing. Cobbled together from irredentist remnants of the Mughal Empire and a double-handful of squabbling tribes in the mountains, it is the worst of all possible worlds: a combination of feckless socialism, an effete zamindari aristocracy, notional Islamism and mandate from the barracks.

Forget Iran and its troubles for a moment: Ahmedinnerjacket is just pushing everyone's buttons. The real Problem Child when it comes to Nukes and Terrorism is Pakistan.

{"commentId":7462567,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
  • 10 votes
#1.7 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 1:48 PM EDT
{"commentId":7462758,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
Bill Harrison

No question 'bout that. Gonna be a very long, hot summer in that part of the world. Expect the militants to step their attacks inside Pakistan proper in response to this action in Swat which might possibly (although I doubt it) extend into the FATA. Plus, you've got Nawaz Sharif lying in the weeds waiting for the main chance.

{"commentId":7462758,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 9 votes
#1.8 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 1:53 PM EDT
{"commentId":7463932,"authorDomain":"blai"}
BlaiseP

The Dog that Didn't Bark in all this is China. Pakistan shares a long border with China, and I'll bet my last dollar they're not going to stand around with their thumbs up their asses while the Taliban continue to train Chinese Uighur Muslim separatists.

China's not blind. They already have enough trouble in Tibet and now with DPRK. But they'll act against the Uighur separatists. We're faced with quite a few of them in Gitmo, and some may be released onto the street in the USA.

{"commentId":7463932,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
  • 8 votes
#1.9 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
{"commentId":7464096,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
Bill Harrison

Very true. The "great game" is on again not that it ever ended really. I'm not really sure what Putin stands to gain by any of this either considering his own not inconsiderable problems with some of these people.

{"commentId":7464096,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 5 votes
#1.10 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT
{"commentId":7464662,"authorDomain":"blai"}
BlaiseP

Putin remembers the Great Game, as a KGB agent, he doubtless studied it at length, for it was as much an intelligence war as a hot war. Many lies were told, many promises broken, and always, always, the petty tyrants playing the Great Powers off against each other.

And Putin was horribly angered to find out Russia had been playing nuclear footsie with Iran, when first he came to office.

Putin's too clever by half to get caught up in this mess just now. He's got problems enough at home, keeping his own dissidents at bay. His protege is not quite up to the challenge of dealing with the financial crisis, which has hit Russia pretty hard. There are also the Russian skinheads afoot, they're currently useful in some respects, ultra-nationalists and such, but they'll go under the knife like so many sheep when Putin Inc. tires of them.

Russia never really wanted to play The Great Game. It was primarily interested in keeping the West off its pale underbelly. Surprisingly, Russia is fairly content to have Muslims running around, they're not the problem in Russia they are in China.

{"commentId":7464662,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
  • 7 votes
#1.11 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:52 PM EDT
{"commentId":7465232,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}
Nofluer

If the Packis have the stomach for it, the solution to the Taliban is the same as the US used on the American Indians, and that Sherman used on the South - destroy their sources of support, food, shelter, whatever they need to live, kill it or burn it. The Paki government forces needs to set up anvil forces around the Taliban home turf, then move in to it and burn it to the ground - ALL of it.

Of course, the Old Testament Biblical solution is to kill "everything that pisseth upon the wall." Not quite genocide, but close.

The alternative? The Paki government will lose to the Taliban because the Taliban have mobility and determination - and they are more ethnocentric than the Paki government. And the Taliban will get nukes - at least 60 of them in unknown condition. (The Pakis have been expanding and upgrading their nuke forces lately.)

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/nuclearweapons/nukestatus.html

{"commentId":7465232,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
  • 3 votes
#1.12 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:12 PM EDT
{"commentId":7465585,"authorDomain":"jfarchonis"}
ARCHON-PRIME

Barack Obama said Islam was not the enemy. This is not true.

Obama-Soetoros perspective is "The White Crusaders are the enemy".

I stopped reading there. Let me know when you form a cogent political argument that doesn't rely on falsehoods and scare tactics.

There is a reason so many NEO-LIBERAL DRONES SUPPORTED OBAMA-SOETORO- they don't know or read the FACTS.

{"commentId":7465585,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jfarchonis"}
  • 6 votes
#1.13 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:25 PM EDT
{"commentId":7465726,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
Nasty Liberal

I found this article to be an outright brilliant analysis but for one major quibble: I do not yet find evidence to characterise this President as a "well-meaning idiot."

He very well may be, and we are indeed in much deeper trouble than we already have been if it proves so. However, it seems he has found the very right place to make his first stand regarding foreign affairs (aside from Pakistan): Israel must get out of the West Bank, no ifs, ands, or buts.

This is necessary for Israel's own security in the long term, for if the Jewish state does not it will ultimately become either a Muslim-majority state or else an apartheid state. So says the analysis I respect, anyway.

Will he stand his ground on this without blinking? It's ironic that this, our relationship with our stanch ally Israel, may prove to be the first real foreign policy test of his mettle.

{"commentId":7465726,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
  • 5 votes
#1.14 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:31 PM EDT
{"commentId":7465848,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
Bill Harrison

The Israelis will not abandon the West Bank just because Barack Obama gives a speech in Cairo. One must keep in mind that Bibi Netanyahu's visit with the president here in Washington took place right before this trip. Was that a coincidence? I think not. With weak, divided governments in both Israel and within the Palestinian Authority there's little chance of any peace settlement on the horizon.

{"commentId":7465848,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
  • 8 votes
#1.15 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:35 PM EDT
{"commentId":7466085,"authorDomain":"blai"}
BlaiseP

Barack Obama publicly romanticizes Islam. Therefore, I contend he is a well-meaning idiot. Islam is a political system, a truly godawful scheme of governance. It is as serious a threat to the world at large as ever was Communism, another scheme which tried to unify mankind and oppressed its intellectual (and religious!) opposition.

Communism, like State Islam, works quite well within small groups. One for all and all for one. Yet when it comes to governance, it becomes very much like Animal Farm:

Mr. Pilkington, of Foxwood, had stood up, his mug in his hand. In a moment, he said, he would ask the present company to drink a toast. But before doing so, there were a few words that he felt it incumbent upon him to say.

It was a source of great satisfaction to him, he said-and, he was sure, to all others present-to feel that a long period of mistrust and misunderstanding had now come to an end. There had been a time-not that he, or any of the present company, had shared such sentiments-but there had been a time when the respected proprietors of Animal Farm had been regarded, he would not say with hostility, but perhaps with a certain measure of misgiving, by their human neighbours. Unfortunate incidents had occurred, mistaken ideas had been current. It had been felt that the existence of a farm owned and operated by pigs was somehow abnormal and was liable to have an unsettling effect in the neighbourhood. Too many farmers had assumed, without due enquiry, that on such a farm a spirit of licence and indiscipline would prevail. They had been nervous about the effects upon their own animals, or even upon their human employees. But all such doubts were now dispelled. Today he and his friends had visited Animal Farm and inspected every inch of it with their own eyes, and what did they find? Not only the most up-to-date methods, but a discipline and an orderliness which should be an example to all farmers everywhere. He believed that he was right in saying that the lower animals on Animal Farm did more work and received less food than any animals in the county. Indeed, he and his fellow-visitors today had observed many features which they intended to introduce on their own farms immediately.

He would end his remarks, he said, by emphasising once again the friendly feelings that subsisted, and ought to subsist, between Animal Farm and its neighbours. Between pigs and human beings there was not, and there need not be, any clash of interests whatever. Their struggles and their difficulties were one. Was not the labour problem the same everywhere? Here it became apparent that Mr. Pilkington was about to spring some carefully prepared witticism on the company, but for a moment he was too overcome by amusement to be able to utter it. After much choking, during which his various chins turned purple, he managed to get it out: "If you have your lower animals to contend with," he said, "we have our lower classes!" This bon mot set the table in a roar; and Mr. Pilkington once again congratulated the pigs on the low rations, the long working hours, and the general absence of pampering which he had observed on Animal Farm.

And now, he said finally, he would ask the company to rise to their feet and make certain that their glasses were full. "Gentlemen," concluded Mr. Pilkington, "gentlemen, I give you a toast: To the prosperity of Animal Farm!"

There was enthusiastic cheering and stamping of feet. Napoleon was so gratified that he left his place and came round the table to clink his mug against Mr. Pilkington's before emptying it. When the cheering had died down, Napoleon, who had remained on his feet, intimated that he too had a few words to say.

Like all of Napoleon's speeches, it was short and to the point. He too, he said, was happy that the period of misunderstanding was at an end. For a long time there had been rumours-circulated, he had reason to think, by some malignant enemy-that there was something subversive and even revolutionary in the outlook of himself and his colleagues. They had been credited with attempting to stir up rebellion among the animals on neighbouring farms. Nothing could be further from the truth! Their sole wish, now and in the past, was to live at peace and in normal business relations with their neighbours.

{"commentId":7466085,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
  • 8 votes
#1.16 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT
{"commentId":7466353,"authorDomain":"kyleb"}
Kyle Baxter

I stopped reading there. Let me know when you form a cogent political argument that doesn't rely on falsehoods and scare tactics.

I think you misunderstand his point, Steve. What Blaise refers to as "State Islam," or political Islam, is very dangerous, and his point is correct: In Islam, political rule and religion are so intertwined that it is difficult to pull them apart. This isn't falsehoods and scare tactics -- this is truth.

The reason is that from Islam's beginning, religious leaders and political leaders were one and the same. Muhammad was both prophet and head of state, as he led the Muslims while being persecuted by the Quraish. This became the model for the "proper" Islamic state: the caliphate is a successor to the prophet.

This does not mean, of course, that Muslims today cannot separate religion from from political rule, but it is magnitudes more difficult to do than it was in the West where separation of church and state is written in the Bible.

Political Islam, as espoused by Sayyid Qutb and others, is incredibly dangerous. Its goal is very clear: to spread Islamic law across the world, and defeat anyone who opposes it. This cannot be tolerated -- a mindset that a religion must be imposed by law, and especially one as harsh as Sharia law, is one that cannot be compromised with because it means the destruction of our own institutions.

{"commentId":7466353,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kyleb"}
  • 11 votes
#1.17 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:56 PM EDT
{"commentId":7466521,"authorDomain":"blai"}
BlaiseP

Quite correct. It is an inflammatory thing to say, but Islam makes no bones about its political nature. Until it is put into the golden cage of Freedom of Religion, which is to say it can't oppress other religions, and the Separation of Church and State, which means secular governments, Islam will be as much trouble as Christianity ever was in history.

{"commentId":7466521,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
  • 11 votes
#1.18 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:02 PM EDT
{"commentId":7466913,"authorDomain":"neal242"}
neal242

We remain the Great Satan, the Crusader, and we cannot be otherwise: for we are a secular state.

So... in order to be a secular state you have to invade sovereign states over lies... Iran WAS a democratic nation until they nationalized their oil industry and kicked American/British corporations out- then Great Satan staged a coup to install brutal dictator which led to Iranian revolution and is a direct cause of the environment of Iran today. Have you forgotten the speech warning about the military industrial complex? Yes religious states are bad, but so are imperialist and totalitarian states like America. I say you worry about the terrorists who have infiltrated and gained control of the government and corporations decades ago in AMERICA.

America is a Corporate Monarchy, Obama is Bush/Cheney's cousin, and freedom is not given to you you have to take it.

{"commentId":7466913,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"neal242"}
  • 2 votes
#1.19 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:16 PM EDT
{"commentId":7467101,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
Nasty Liberal

Blaise:

Barack Obama publicly romanticizes Islam. Therefore, I contend he is a well-meaning idiot.

Well, I see now where you are coming from with that estimation; I just hope he's really only working the politics of the situation with his flattery. If it's otherwise... then he is an idiot, and woe is us- two in a row would just be too much.

I am also hoping the the parable Blaise relates from Animal Farm is simply more amusing than apt...

{"commentId":7467101,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
  • 4 votes
#1.20 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:23 PM EDT
{"commentId":7467285,"authorDomain":"neal242"}
neal242

Woe is us NastyLiberal

We did elect "another one"

{"commentId":7467285,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"neal242"}
  • 4 votes
#1.21 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:31 PM EDT
{"commentId":7467572,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
Nasty Liberal

Yeah, well Neal I myself am a third cousin to Looney Clooney so that proves your point is total- oh wait...

Uh oh... now I am scared!

{"commentId":7467572,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
    #1.22 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:42 PM EDT
    {"commentId":7471734,"authorDomain":"arsine3463"}
    Buckeye Voter

    I stopped reading there.

    Usually, I would not read such a long article. I did read every word of this one, though. Not because I agree with every assertion, but because the prose was interesting.

    Excellent article, Blaise.

    {"commentId":7471734,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"arsine3463"}
    • 4 votes
    #1.23 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 8:31 PM EDT
    {"commentId":7474168,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
    Scott Isaacs

    Speaking of Pakistan, I wrote this article and it hasn't gained much attention. I would appreciate it if some of you would come and read and comment, particularly BlaiseP with his knowledge of the region and culture.

    {"commentId":7474168,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
    • 7 votes
    #1.24 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 11:21 PM EDT
    {"commentId":7478229,"authorDomain":"USA4Him"}
    USA4Him

    The 5th paragraph is right on the money!

    Excellent and very accurate observation. It is scary that a President who claims to be a "christian", knows so, so much about islam.

    Who is Barack Obama? What has he done for the USA? What is his track record?

    I am a 3rd generation American and live in the northeast, I am very interested in politics, but I have never, ever heard of Barack "Barry" Obama, until he ran for the Presidency.

    {"commentId":7478229,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"USA4Him"}
    • 3 votes
    #1.25 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 9:05 AM EDT
    {"commentId":7479405,"authorDomain":"jefm"}
    Crusader Infidel

    Good point USA4HIM, Obama is the devil we don't know

    {"commentId":7479405,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jefm"}
    • 1 vote
    #1.26 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:22 AM EDT
    {"commentId":7479620,"authorDomain":"rachaelmm"}
    RachaelMM

    (This is against my better judgment:)

    You hadn't heard of him, even though he was a sitting Senator before he decided to run (having won his seat by the widest margin in Illinois history), and gave a speech at the 2004 DNC that people were buzzing about for quite some time, even though you're "very interested in politics"? Really? Maybe you're not as informed as you think you are.

    {"commentId":7479620,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"rachaelmm"}
    • 3 votes
    #1.27 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:34 AM EDT
    {"commentId":7480655,"authorDomain":"georgeh"}
    Free_Spirit1184

    BlaiseP

    I think you see what you want to see and it really doesn't matter what our President says or does. I consider such a mentality to be abusive.

    {"commentId":7480655,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"georgeh"}
    • 3 votes
    #1.28 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:31 AM EDT
    {"commentId":7482904,"authorDomain":"millerboudicca"}
    millerb-1023348

    the idea that an educated president of the # 1 country in the world would know "so much" about Islam scares you? I think that says only good things about him and questionable things about someone who would consider knowledge a bad thing USA4HIM. Understanding is the key to everything, not an obstacle. We have seen what happens when we have a President who did not understand Islam and it has cost us dearly.

    {"commentId":7482904,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"millerboudicca"}
    • 1 vote
    #1.29 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 1:23 PM EDT
    {"commentId":7484697,"authorDomain":"tyler"}
    tyler

    BlaiseP, this should be News Type: Opinion, it's getting reported as miscategorized. Not a big deal but change it when you get the chance.

    Nice stylings.

    {"commentId":7484697,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"tyler"}
    • 4 votes
    #1.30 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 2:47 PM EDT
    {"commentId":7485206,"authorDomain":"kyleb"}
    Kyle Baxter

    It is scary that a President who claims to be a "christian", knows so, so much about islam.

    Why in the hell is that scary? I'm an agnostic, and I know quite a bit about Islam, too. Does that scare you?

    I also know a little about Buddhism and Taoism. Are you really scared now?

    {"commentId":7485206,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kyleb"}
    • 6 votes
    #1.31 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 3:12 PM EDT
    {"commentId":7486711,"authorDomain":"neoconstant"}
    E.D.Kain

    But didn't you know? Knowledge is slavery. The more we know about other cultures, the more likely we'll be to succumb to their evil ways....

    (okay, and I'm being sarcastic. I hate to add that, but I mean, it's the internets and it can be hard to tell...)

    {"commentId":7486711,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"neoconstant"}
    • 4 votes
    #1.32 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 4:31 PM EDT
    {"commentId":7488044,"authorDomain":"DEBE"}
    DEBEKI

    Free-Spirit : Isn't it funny when "conservatives" talk with themselves. They all sound alike and kiss each others butt... Go figure that - where is the debate - they all say the same - just dropped by to see if there was any kind of "real" discussion. NOPE. Same ol' crap. See ya later.

    {"commentId":7488044,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"DEBE"}
      #1.33 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 5:42 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7488651,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
      Scott Isaacs

      I'd rather Obama know much about Islam because that makes him all the better to negotiate with them.

      The dicey thing about wars of extinction is that you can be on the losing end.

      {"commentId":7488651,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
      • 5 votes
      #1.34 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 6:20 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":7463594,"authorDomain":"angela593"}
      angela593

      Without the institutions of a free press, independent judiciaries and the separation of Church and State, we now see tyrannies of the majority and Islamic courts.

      Thanks. Interesting perspective. It is sad how peace to some, does not mean peace for all.

      {"commentId":7463594,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"angela593"}
      • 3 votes
      Reply#2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:18 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7463763,"authorDomain":"blai"}
      BlaiseP

      How did Tacitus put it of the Roman conquest of Britain? Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

      "They made a wasteland and called it peace"

      {"commentId":7463763,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
      • 8 votes
      #2.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:24 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7465975,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
      Nasty Liberal

      Yet the Britons became the finest of the colonial soldiers in the Roman Legions...

      {"commentId":7465975,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
      • 3 votes
      #2.2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7466250,"authorDomain":"EllieP"}
      EllieP

      What a wonderful analysis, BlaiseP. I am reminded of the prophet Jeremiah writing of the Siege of Jerusalem, Chapter 6:

      13 "From the least to the greatest,
      all are greedy for gain;
      prophets and priests alike,
      all practice deceit.

      14 They dress the wound of my people
      as though it were not serious.
      'Peace, peace,' they say,
      when there is no peace.

      {"commentId":7466250,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"EllieP"}
      • 8 votes
      #2.3 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":7463879,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
      jfxgillis

      Blaise, Bill:

      This what I don't get. I know, Bill, that one of the very few areas of consistent agreement between you, jazz and me (and Blaise to a lesser extent) which not only predates our joining the Vine, but predates the Vine, is that we all thought U.S. policy of coddling Pakistan was a stone cold loser.

      If you look at events on the ground in Pakistan in the last four months, it's obvious by results that that is no longer U.S. policy. All that we can really say from reading the papers is that there seems to have been a marked increase in drone attacks against foreign fighters and the Taliban in the autonomous regions. (I think it's possible we may even have a few boots on the ground there.) Which provoked the Taliban into an offensive. Which led to the Pakistani army getting serious. They have now extended the writ of the central government to places it had not operated previously. Hundreds of Taliban and foreign fighters have been killed.

      Once Obama stopped with the Bush/McCain blather about "respecting Pakistani sovereignty" and started acting agressively in American interests, things have started getting better. So ...

      How about some props for my guy?

      {"commentId":7463879,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
      • 7 votes
      Reply#3 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:28 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7464319,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      Bill Harrison

      Jack, I can't reveal my sources but the real reason the Paks have gotten some religion on this matter so to speak is a matter of the ISI finally waking up to the threat of the likes of Mehsud, et al, inside Pakistan proper writ large last week by the bombing of the ISI hq in Lahore. The drone attacks are simply a continuation of what Bush was doing. That said, the Pak offensive in Swat has been pretty much a typically heavy-handed conventional assault. Yeah, they killed some bad guys but many simply melted away back into the NWFP and FATA (and also quite possibly into Punjab itself) to fight another day. The challenge now is for Pakistan to improve greatly its abilities in COIN warfare which its military is not noted for. There's also the not inconsiderable problem of Nawaz Sharif's being cleared to return to office although not the prime ministership -- as yet.

      {"commentId":7464319,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      • 7 votes
      #3.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:41 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7464752,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
      jfxgillis

      Bill:

      the real reason the Paks have gotten some religion

      Oh. And they just happened to get that religion almost exactly coincident with a change in U.S. administrations? And much of the increase in the drone attacks by the previous administration occurred in the lame duck period anyway. If your buddy McCain had won, we'd have had a continuation of the coddling because he said so during the campaign. He'd follow bin Laden through the Gates of Hell .... but not if those Gates might irritate the Pakistanis by infringing on their sovereign territory.

      {"commentId":7464752,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
      • 7 votes
      #3.2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:55 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7464928,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      Bill Harrison

      Jack, there are no US special operators in the FATA and most certainly there weren't any in this op in Mingora. You keep believing your fantasies about Obama though but you might just wish to keep in mind that if your party had had its way Dave Petraeus would be doing garrison duty somewhere north of the Arctic Circle and Bob Gates would still be minding the store at Texas A&M.

      {"commentId":7464928,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      • 6 votes
      #3.3 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:01 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7465255,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
      jfxgillis

      Bill:

      there are no US special operators in the FATA

      Well, it hasn't been in the papers, I'll concede that. But I doubt it would be even if it was the case. I'm just pondering the kind of hidden events that might have provoked the Taliban so suddenly.

      But what the hell is wrong with you?

      Bob Gates would still be minding the store at Texas A&M.

      My party DID get its way and Bob Gates is Secretary of Defense. If YOUR party had ITS way, Blo-Rums-feld would have stayed at the Pentagon. I'll put my guy up against your guy any day.

      {"commentId":7465255,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
      • 6 votes
      #3.4 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:13 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7465556,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      Bill Harrison

      Yeah, right. You can pound that sand somewhere else. It was Jack Keane and Fred Kagan who got Bush's ear to get rid of Rumsfeld and the failed Abizaid/Casey strategery and go with Petraeus. History ain't your specialty Jack.

      {"commentId":7465556,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      • 5 votes
      #3.5 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:24 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7465872,"authorDomain":"blai"}
      BlaiseP

      Seconded. Bush knew Rumsfeld had screwed the pooch and then lied about it all. Petraeus wasn't all that wonderful, I still think he shined on a lot of scurrilous doings while he was up in Mosul, but from a results-oriented perspective, Petraeus was the right man for the job.

      What provoked the Taliban? Well, heh, getting their heads bashed in by JDAMs and run out of Afghanistan. They bet wrong on Osama bin Ladin and paid a terrible price for it. Now the Taliban have learned a lesson, or maybe not, but they're going after Pakistan's weak government and Karzai's not a whole lot better.

      And why isn't Karzai any better off and why hasn't he grown any ass meat since he came to power? Because Rumsfeld cut him off at the knees and wouldn't get Afghanistan stable before launching the idiotic Iraq invasion. Had Karzai been given the mandate he needed, early on, we would be out of Afghanistan by now, so say I. Rummy the Dummy was half-o-this and none-o-that and just didn't understand COIN. At all.

      {"commentId":7465872,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
      • 7 votes
      #3.6 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7466054,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      Bill Harrison

      Nor, might I add, is Iraq anything resembling a done deal either. Al Qaeda is weakened there but they're still hanging around and once the withdrawal of US combat brigades really begins in earnest is when the "fun" is going to start.

      {"commentId":7466054,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      • 5 votes
      #3.7 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:44 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7474354,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
      Scott Isaacs

      Bill:

      Not in the FATA but Balochistan which is damn close.

      {"commentId":7474354,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
      • 2 votes
      #3.8 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 11:37 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":7466342,"authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
      ScienceGuy-356641

      If all Muslims are inherently evil, then what the hell are we trying to achieve in Iraq? What did Bush hope to solve by removing Saddam from power (besides searching for mythical WMDs, providing no-bid overpriced contracts to Haliburton, and protecting U.S. oil interests)? Are we supposed to convert every Muslim in that country to Christianity? Or should we just line up every Muslim man, woman, and child and shoot them?

      Did all of our soldiers die in a vain effort to bring civility to a land that cannot be civilized? Because that is the only logical conclusion one can draw if we assume that anyone who follows the Islamic religion is our enemy and wants to destroy us.

      {"commentId":7466342,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
      • 5 votes
      Reply#4 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 3:55 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7466576,"authorDomain":"st-theresa"}
      Ellen-for-Obama

      And why was it okay when Bush held hands with a Saudi prince?

      {"commentId":7466576,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"st-theresa"}
      • 5 votes
      #4.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:04 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7466594,"authorDomain":"blai"}
      BlaiseP

      Where did I imply Muslims are inherently evil? I have said State Islam is inherently evil, for the same reason State Shinto was evil. When we abolished State Shinto in Japan, we didn't abolish Shinto. Nor do we wish to abolish Islam, in point of fact, Islam will flourish when it is freed from the trappings of state power, as Christianity flourished in the USA.

      By separating Church and State, we free them both.

      {"commentId":7466594,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
      • 10 votes
      #4.2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:05 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7466760,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      Bill Harrison

      How you can find any purchase for the notion that my friend is suggesting that "all Muslims are evil" in this piece surpasses human understanding. I suggest that you try reading it again. The problem with Islam is its manifestation within the framework of the state in the form of decidedly illiberal jurisprudential concepts embedded within Shari'a. Mustafa Kemal pointedly went the other way in founding modern Turkey.

      {"commentId":7466760,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      • 5 votes
      #4.3 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7467023,"authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
      ScienceGuy-356641

      So is it the job of the United States to "abolish" all foreign governments who do not embrace the same political philosophies that we do?

      {"commentId":7467023,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
      • 5 votes
      #4.4 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:20 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7467305,"authorDomain":"blai"}
      BlaiseP

      Of course it isn't our duty to abolish all foreign governments who disagree with us. Quite the opposite, we must engage them constructively, without any mealy-mouthed faint praise for their disgusting State Religions.

      Buried deep within Islam is an amazingly democratic viewpoint: أمة‎ = The Ummaj, the community of Islam, every single Muslim in the world. Everyone is equal before Allah, according to this tenet of Islam. Islam is therefore no barrier to the notion of the Equality of Man. Where Islam fails is exactly where Christianity failed: it attempted to make itself superior to all other faiths, became hugely intolerant and entered into the business of governing.

      The Kingdom of Jesus Christ is in the hearts of men and women of goodwill, everywhere. Thus we believe, we Christians. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you, so said Jesus. My Kingdom is not of this earth, he also said before Pilate. Unlike Jesus Christ, Muhammad the Prophet's kingdom was of this earth and his followers are attempting to re-create it. As Christianity attempted to impose its will on the world and was only restrained by force, we cannot expect Islam to suddenly have a change of heart about religious tolerance. It will not happen on its own.

      Ronald Reagan once stood before the Berlin Wall and said "Tear down this wall!" Someone has to say the same thing to State Islam.

      {"commentId":7467305,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
      • 9 votes
      #4.5 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:32 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7474451,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      Bill Harrison

      Quite so. In the most astonishing bit of world history, a "slave religion" overcame the greatest empire the world had yet known when Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus became the man classical antiquity has passed to us as "Constantine". To walk the catacombs of Rome to this day makes me weep -- with rejoicing.

      {"commentId":7474451,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      • 5 votes
      #4.6 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 11:45 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7479921,"authorDomain":"jefm"}
      Crusader Infidel

      Right on the mark Blais.

      I've characterized the Islamic religion as "earth-based" in that there is the perception that they need to control territory after which they can impose their system on the inhabitants.

      {"commentId":7479921,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jefm"}
      • 3 votes
      #4.7 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:52 AM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":7466747,"authorDomain":"susibv"}
      GoldenGateMami_Susi

      Wow.

      So if you're Christian you are permanently bound to read and studying only the Bible.

      Guess then you might as well call me a Judeo-Christian-Muslim-Hindi-Buddhist, etc.

      Because I've read and studied many a holy book in World Religions courses through the years.

      It's been rather fascinating to delve into these other faiths and come away with a sense that when you get down to it we aren't all that very different from one another when it comes to religion---the way we practice, some of our beliefs, etc. may differ......but we all want one thing.......to be closer to God, have a true understanding of our faith and be better people.

      It is an ongoing disbelief that there are people in our country who sit there and believe that because our President can accurately recite and pronounce words from a Holy Book different from his own that it makes him evil, complicit in wanting or working towards hatred and injury to our country and our people.

      So is this person trying to say that in order to be viewed as "American, Christian" you have to not be able to quote from other sources, pronounce words correctly as they are meant to be or somehow show respect to another culture or faith.

      What is killing our nation is the cancer of ignorance.

      Truly, truly sad and tragic and downright frightening.

      {"commentId":7466747,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"susibv"}
      • 7 votes
      Reply#5 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:10 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7466808,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      Bill Harrison

      What is killing our nation is the cancer of ignorance.

      Quod erat demonstrandum.

      {"commentId":7466808,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
      • 5 votes
      #5.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:12 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7467695,"authorDomain":"blai"}
      BlaiseP

      Heh. I've studied Arabic for four decades now. I have the utmost respect for Islam-the-religion. I have none for the Islamic State. Now unless you want to live in an Islamic State and face persecution for your free-thinking ways, perhaps you might be better-served to read what I've written, especially in the comments, to clarify my position.

      I am sincerely glad our president can speak and read Arabic to some limited extent. I am thrilled to see him in Cairo, at one of the oldest universities in the world, speaking kind words to Muslims. Yet all these things have been said before! Bush the Dumber made an impassioned speech after 9/11, saying we did not hate Muslims in general, only the terrorist elements within it. But he proved otherwise: Bush went on to alienate every single Muslim in the world via his insane invasion of Iraq and the subsequent screwups.

      The worst evils in the world begin with the best of intentions. I sincerely do NOT want a Christian nation. But you'd know that if you'd actually read the article I wrote.

      {"commentId":7467695,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
      • 10 votes
      #5.2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:46 PM EDT
      {"commentId":7472011,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
      Nasty Liberal

      If only the Vice President was my choice for BHO's running mate: Brian Schweitzer, the governor of Montana.

      (he's a fluent speaker of Arabic, and spent a significant time in Saudi Arabia working on irrigation)

      {"commentId":7472011,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
        #5.3 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 8:49 PM EDT
        Reply
        {"commentId":7466968,"authorDomain":"susibv"}
        GoldenGateMami_Susi

        It is proven daily out of the mouths of Rush, Beck, Hannity, et al.

        {"commentId":7466968,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"susibv"}
        • 5 votes
        Reply#6 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:18 PM EDT
        {"commentId":7467005,"authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
        vol fan in chatt, tn

        The Islamic State is antithetical to the USA and its interests.

        Interesting piece. While I don't agree with many of your apparent leanings, you hit this one square on! That is why, imho, he scares me to death, on many levels; but especially about his interests toward muslims. He wants it both way, "I'm not a muslim, I am a Christian" and now after the election, he starts talking about his muslim roots and portrays himself (sort of) as one- is just stupid! Jake Tapper of ABC did a piece on this a few days ago. Here's the link:

        http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/abc-news-jake-tapper-and-sunlen-miller-report-the-other-day-we-heard-a-comment-from-a-white-house-aide-that-neverwould-have.html

        This butt kissing (whomever it is) by our presidents is not healthy for this country - in any shape, way or fashion.

        {"commentId":7467005,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
        • 3 votes
        Reply#7 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:19 PM EDT
        {"commentId":7467041,"authorDomain":"susibv"}
        GoldenGateMami_Susi

        Can someone tell me what is so wrong with any of the words pasted below:

        1. Respect and honor all human beings irrespective of their religion, color, race, sex, language, status, property, birth, profession/job and so on
        2. Talk straight, to the point, without any ambiguity or deception
        3. Choose best words to speak and say them in the best possible way
        4. Do not shout. Speak politely keeping your voice low.
        5. Always speak the truth. Shun words that are deceitful and ostentatious
        6. Do not confound truth with falsehood
        7. Say with your mouth what is in your heart
        8. Speak in a civilized manner in a language that is recognized by the society and is commonly used
        9. When you voice an opinion, be just, even if it is against a relative
        10. Do not be a bragging boaster
        11. Do not talk, listen or do anything vain
        12. Do not participate in any paltry. If you pass near a futile play, then pass by with dignity
        13. Do not verge upon any immodesty or lewdness whether surreptitious or overt
        14. If, unintentionally, any misconduct occurs by you, then correct yourself expeditiously
        15. Do not be contemptuous or arrogant with people
        16. Do not walk haughtily or with conceit
        17. Be moderate in thy pace
        18. Walk with humility and sedateness
        19. Keep your gazes lowered devoid of any lecherous leers and salacious stares
        20. If you do not have complete knowledge about anything, better keep your mouth shut. You might think that speaking about something without full knowledge is a trivial matter. But it might have grave consequences

        {"commentId":7467041,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"susibv"}
        • 5 votes
        Reply#8 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:21 PM EDT
        {"commentId":7467457,"authorDomain":"blai"}
        BlaiseP

        Tell that to my Christian Iraqi friends, who I am now supporting through their visa process. Their community goes back to the dawn of Christianity, and has been utterly demolished.

        In short, allow me to quote the Qu'ran in its original text to you

        : وَمِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ مَن يَقُولُ ءَامَنَّا بِٱللَّهِ وَبِٱلۡيَوۡمِ ٱلۡأَخِرِ وَمَا هُم بِمُؤۡمِنِينَ

        {"commentId":7467457,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
        • 9 votes
        #8.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:37 PM EDT
        {"commentId":7469382,"authorDomain":"susibv"}
        GoldenGateMami_Susi

        I'm sorry Blaise please translate the scrit for me.

        But I agree........alienation and steps towards genocide of Christian Arabs happens sometimes w/out any notice or mention in the media......

        I wonder why our Christians here don't offer a hand in sanctuary to their brothers and sisters......could it because because an Arab is an Arab regardless of faith and all Arabs are to be feared and loathed?

        {"commentId":7469382,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"susibv"}
        • 4 votes
        #8.2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 6:08 PM EDT
        {"commentId":7469983,"authorDomain":"Socrates1"}
        Socrates1

        And these are to be read where?

        {"commentId":7469983,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"Socrates1"}
          #8.3 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 6:45 PM EDT
          {"commentId":7470129,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          {"commentId":7471594,"authorDomain":"susibv"}
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          Thanks, Dennis for posting the link.

          ------------------------------------------------------------|

          Now, aren't these words inflammatory? Words that insight hatred, fear, terror? Are they fighting words? Racist?

          What's the difference if those words appear in a Christian Bible, The Holy Qur'an, The Torah.....or is that just it......these words appear in a holy book other than the Christian Bible and therefore are rendered invalid?

          If a Muslim cleric speaks these words vs. a Catholic priest, a Baptist Pastor, or Episcopalean Minister........is their meaning diminished?

          Do these words sound like a religion that is out to harm anyone?

          Funny, I have heard these words said to me in so many ways throughout my life.....I don't see them as religious tenets......I see them as words to live a good life by.

          So, again......what is the difference if these words are in the Holy Qur'an or a Bible?

          {"commentId":7471594,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"susibv"}
          • 4 votes
          #8.5 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 8:22 PM EDT
          {"commentId":7472267,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
          Nasty Liberal

          Well now there you have it: if more self-proclaimed "Muslims" would concentrate on the Qur'an and eschew the Hadiths(?) ("traditions of the Prophet's life"), we might make a lot of headway in a hurry.

          {"commentId":7472267,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
            #8.6 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 9:06 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7475007,"authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
            vol fan in chatt, tn

            Golden Gate,

            Actually quite a few Christians in our community are helping our Iraqi brothers and sister who have come here because of fear for their lives, or in some cases, the murder of their loved ones as a repayment for their helping the American soldiers root out terrorists, and/or acting as translators. I know several Iraqi Christians and Iraqi Muslims being helped by the Christian community here where I live and across the US. It is sickening and unfortunate at what will happen to these people when we leave them after the pullout - they most certainly will be persecuted and/or murdered.

            In one instance of a family that I have helped in this area, the father was murdered in cold blood right in front of his family and young children. The immediate family is here now, thankfully, but this story has been repeated over and over in the last few years and all across the US. I wonder just how many there are here? I have no idea. But there are plenty more in fear for their lives once American troops leave Iraq.

            {"commentId":7475007,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
            • 6 votes
            #8.7 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 12:40 AM EDT
            {"commentId":7478284,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}
            Nofluer

            A little thing can mean a lot - a couple of summers ago I was approaching my exit off the interstate and I saw a van, broken down at the side of the road. Sitting in the shade of this van were several black men.

            Now, where I live black people are very rare. They'd be what some would refer to as "out of place." But on this day they were just people with a problem, and God led me to stop. I pulled over on the exit and walked back to them, and learned that they were new Somali immigrants/refugees on their way from Texas to a city North of us by some distance. They said they had a relative who was on the way with help, but "thank you for stopping to see if we needed help."

            So I got back into my pickup and went home. Oh... I forgot to mention that the temperature was hovering around 100 degrees F and almost no breeze.

            I loaded up two bottles of water for each of them, and I had some beef and cheese snacks laying around, so I packed those up too. (Salt content is high, and there is no forbidden food in the contents... I assumed that they were probably Muslims).

            I got back to where they were, and handed out the water and snacks - and the looks on their faces expressed a gratitude that went waaay beyond the worth of a few bottles of water. Then their "help" arrived. Among the "helpers" were two black men who never said a word - they just glowered at me. Their faces were painted with hatred and so I decided that I would leave. :-D

            And maybe part of the reason they hated me was because of what the Somalis were saying - they were kind of dancing around and waving the water bottles in the air at the others, and saying, "He brought us water! He gave us WATER!" And they were smiling like idiots.

            In my head, I'm thinking that maybe there is a cultural thing involving a gift of water where they are from. But I couldn't help but feel that, with those men at least, the Jihadis would have a somewhat more difficult time radicalizing them in their new homes - because they might carry the story with them for the rest of their lives of the White American who stopped and gave them water.

            {"commentId":7478284,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
            • 10 votes
            #8.8 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 9:09 AM EDT
            Reply
            {"commentId":7467152,"authorDomain":"blll"}
            blll

            So many years of Neo-conservative nonsense need to be undone and rolled back in the United States.

            The truth is that the Reagan administration supplied weapons to Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war. We long considered Hussein an ally until he went after the oil fields of Kuwait and interfered with our oil interests. We also supplied weapons to Iran at the same time for the same war - so its hard to say which side we were really supporting.

            Also, Reagan helped support the budding resistance in Afghanistan against the occupiers at that time, the Soviet Union. The Freedom Fighters, as Reagan called them, were lead by a gentleman named Osama Bin Laden. We helped supply these Freedom Fights and Mr Bin Laden by supplying him with arms and training in effective terrorist practices. Unfortunately, that little neo-conservatist bit of adverturism also didn't end well for us.

            Its time we face upto to our neo-conservatist history and admit that its been a catastrophic failure.

            {"commentId":7467152,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blll"}
            • 5 votes
            Reply#9 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:25 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7467247,"authorDomain":"neoconstant"}
            E.D.Kain

            Great post, Blaise. Great convo too.

            {"commentId":7467247,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"neoconstant"}
            • 5 votes
            Reply#10 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 4:29 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7468289,"authorDomain":"schnoo"}
            schnoo

            Eloquent and beautifully reasoned, as usual, dw.

            {"commentId":7468289,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"schnoo"}
            • 6 votes
            Reply#11 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 5:10 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7468656,"authorDomain":"bigmeat42"}
            bigmeat42

            So the seeder of this story calls Obama the devil because he said some things that you don't like. Wow you are an angry man who thinks that Obama I guess should just say really mean things to the Muslims. All presidents are going to say basically the same thing. What do you want Obama to do and say. Why don't you write a speech and read to us Obama supporters what Obama should have said to please your body and soul and mind

            {"commentId":7468656,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"bigmeat42"}
            • 4 votes
            Reply#12 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 5:27 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7468905,"authorDomain":"blai"}
            BlaiseP

            Haha. Obama is hardly a devil. He's just trying to make kissy-face with a collection of Devils We Know. How does that make him any different than a dozen presidents before him who said all the same things?

            As it happens, I hope the Muslims of the world will get busy and reform themselves from within. We can't do it for them. They will have to do what Europe did: pull the fangs of the Pope and his bishops. It will not be easy: State Islam will fight back, hard. Perhaps you might observe the fates of all who dare to criticize the Saudi regime and the Egyptian regime before calling me out on being an Angry Man.

            {"commentId":7468905,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
            • 10 votes
            #12.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 5:41 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7469172,"authorDomain":"bigmeat42"}
            bigmeat42

            BlaiseP... in case you are not from America or just have been missing all of the crap that has and have been going on in America herself, America people need a lot of work to. America can't even get race relation right. America also has religion fighting too. America has poor people and a lot of poor kids too. So for our President to be going around the world preaching and being rude to other countries is not right to me. America really needs to work on her problems before we tell other people what we want them to do

            {"commentId":7469172,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"bigmeat42"}
            • 2 votes
            #12.2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 5:56 PM EDT
            Reply
            {"commentId":7469528,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
            Dennis P. McCannDeleted
            {"commentId":7469671,"authorDomain":"bigbugy"}
            bigbugy

            Theres just so much crap in this article I could smell it before my computer even booted up.

            What a bunch of non sense!

            Obama is only undoing what that ass-hole did inhis 8 years of raping the American public.

            Sorry but this article only attempts to malign a good and decent man,with no factual background.

            One more for the ignore list...

            {"commentId":7469671,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"bigbugy"}
            • 4 votes
            Reply#14 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 6:25 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7472546,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
            Nasty Liberal

            bigbugy,

            I myself only encountered this writer today; suggest you read the following article for some further insight:

            http://blai.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11/21/2135567-the-ship-of-tarshish-a-republican-preaches-to-obama

            "The problems we face are rather larger than our partisan differences. Our problems go to the core of our society, a core George W. Bush and his coterie of rogues damaged in ways we will not fully understand for decades to come. (Now?) is it something we as a people can undo, we have done our part by electing a decent man." (emphasis mine)

            Hmmm... "a decent man." I believe he beat you to the punch.

            {"commentId":7472546,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
            • 3 votes
            #14.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 9:25 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7474962,"authorDomain":"kyleb"}
            Kyle Baxter

            How about next time you post, you read the article to which your commenting. That way, your comment will be, amazingly, relevant to the article.

            {"commentId":7474962,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kyleb"}
            • 3 votes
            #14.2 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 12:34 AM EDT
            Reply
            {"commentId":7471126,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
            JoulesBeef

            this is some bigoted bull@!$%#.
            (i am not calling the author a bigot, just what he wrote.. and it is.. it generalizes a whole peopel and we know his statements to be false.)
            Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness. But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice. It is dominion we are after. Not just influence. It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time. It is dominion we are after. World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less.
            guess who said that.
            not a @!$%#ign muslim

            {"commentId":7471126,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
            • 10 votes
            Reply#15 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 7:54 PM EDT
            {"commentId":7472622,"authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
            Nasty Liberal

            You got me, JoulesBeef; who said that?

            {"commentId":7472622,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kevinshinn"}
              #15.1 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 9:30 PM EDT
              {"commentId":7474489,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
              Bill HarrisonExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

              Joules, you watch your semi-literate piehole. You're not fit to scrape the gum off Blaise's shoes. We clear on that.

              {"commentId":7474489,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
              • 6 votes
              #15.2 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 11:49 PM EDT
              {"commentId":7475697,"authorDomain":"ThreeCents"}
              ThreeCents

              Bill,

              I keep thinking you are above the bullying. It is not like JB is going to be cowed by your threats so it looks paper tigerish of you to make them. Everybody know he doesn't care about spelling. What in the world are you going to do to him if he continues to attack your buddies? Hell, I want to tell a lot of people to shut up but I am powerless to make that happen and so are you.

              {"commentId":7475697,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"ThreeCents"}
              • 3 votes
              #15.3 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 1:56 AM EDT
              {"commentId":7477727,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
              Bill HarrisonExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

              You think I give a @!$%# about what you think? Take a hike.

              {"commentId":7477727,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
              • 4 votes
              #15.4 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 8:27 AM EDT
              {"commentId":7480256,"authorDomain":"jefm"}
              Crusader Infidel

              Let me guess...Adolph Hitler?

              {"commentId":7480256,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jefm"}
                #15.5 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:10 AM EDT
                {"commentId":7480404,"authorDomain":"jefm"}
                Crusader Infidel

                An example of a more familiar religion becoming Earth-based.

                {"commentId":7480404,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jefm"}
                  #15.6 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:18 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":7490984,"authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
                  vol fan in chatt, tn

                  Yeah, inquiring minds want to know...who said it?

                  {"commentId":7490984,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
                    #15.7 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:03 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":7501961,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                    krishna-167929

                    not a @!$%#ign muslim

                    What's a "@!$%#ign muslim"?

                    Fu King Muslim?

                    Perhaps you mean a "Chinese Muslim"?

                    {"commentId":7501961,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                    • 2 votes
                    #15.8 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 9:42 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":7472177,"authorDomain":"millerboudicca"}
                    millerb-1023348

                    This also may sound under thought out and maybe it is, but while civilizations come and go, and there is always some stronger barbarian of some sort t the gates (and I don't mean Islamic states necessarily here) we are living in the end of a certain paradigm that we all get our bearings from. I think the young people are living in a different world-view than ours . I don't think we know where we are headed for sure, or even know the devils we think we know. The world is on fastforward and most of us who are thinking about it and analyzing it are using tools and models that are already (for all intents and purposes) gone by. When I look at less erudite news webs done by the younger people, I get little flashes of what I am not getting, that I cannot get. I think that they are on to something. So, we will see.

                    I know this sounds rather airy fairy, but when worldview paradigms fall, it is difficult to be more clear.

                    {"commentId":7472177,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"millerboudicca"}
                      Reply#16 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 9:00 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":7478496,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                      Nofluer

                      Young people are always full of starry-eyed idealism, and that's a good thing - it means they have hope for the future. But somewhere along the line they run face first into the real world and get their noses bent. Then they become the realistic old people who run things.

                      One of Mr Obama's problems is that he seems to see the world from that protected, cozened idealism of youth. He hasn't had his nose bent yet - and that could make it difficult for the rest of us. He doesn't understand economics, geopolitics, the need for and uses of military force, and a host of other things. He doesn't understand that the people he has appointed to run our money systems are crooks - and that is a character flaw. (What is it about a tax cheat that makes him qualified to run the US Treasury? A man who is partially RESPONSIBLE for the current state of the economy! Tax Cheat Timmy Geithner).

                      But I suppose his handlers, the people who give him his orders, have their own agenda - and litte Barry hasn't the brains or the guts to expose and oppose them. Or maybe he agrees with them and their aims? Or maybe he just doesn't want to become another John Kennedy. And WTF - he gets to have some awesome parties! And the travel benifits are stupendous. It's gonna be a rough four years.

                      {"commentId":7478496,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                      • 4 votes
                      #16.1 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 9:23 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":7480310,"authorDomain":"jefm"}
                      Crusader Infidel

                      Right on the money again.

                      Remember, sometimes the barbarians come from within.

                      {"commentId":7480310,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jefm"}
                      • 1 vote
                      #16.2 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:13 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":7480442,"authorDomain":"jefm"}
                      Crusader Infidel

                      Yeah, I'm a little worried about the intentions of the "handlers".

                      {"commentId":7480442,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jefm"}
                      • 1 vote
                      #16.3 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:20 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      {"commentId":7474663,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                      krishna-167929

                      Looks like the reception Obama got in Cairo wasn't as completely positive as some of the politically correct msm made it out to be:

                      "When Obama quoted the Koran — or praised Islam — he got applause. But other lines, such as when Obama vowed to protect the American people from violent attack, were met with stony silence.

                      ""In Ankara, I made clear that America is not – and never will be – at war with Islam," Obama said. "We will, however, relentlessly confront violent extremists who pose a grave threat to our security. (Silence from the crowd.) Because we reject the same thing that people of all faiths reject: the killing of innocent men, women, and children. (More silence.) And it is my first duty as president to protect the American people." More silence.

                      "And when the president talked about the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America, he was met with only stares from the audience.

                      (Link)

                      {"commentId":7474663,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                      • 9 votes
                      Reply#17 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 12:04 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":7495109,"authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
                      vol fan in chatt, tn

                      Yes, we can kiss Arab butt all we want, but they do not care one whitt about us - the sooner he (Obama) understands this, the better off we will be - at least in this regard.

                      {"commentId":7495109,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
                      • 3 votes
                      #17.1 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 10:36 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      {"commentId":7477444,"authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}
                      WILDWONDERFUL

                      Islam is totally out of sync with Christianity. You are not allowed to take a Bible into Saudi Arabia.

                      {"commentId":7477444,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}
                      • 4 votes
                      Reply#18 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 7:59 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":7478044,"authorDomain":"bradley-440"}
                      Brad_440

                      That's not Islam, it's the people who control Saudi Arabia.

                      {"commentId":7478044,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"bradley-440"}
                      • 2 votes
                      #18.1 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 8:54 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":7491000,"authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
                      vol fan in chatt, tn

                      That's not Islam, it's the people who control Saudi Arabia.

                      And who, pray tell, do you think controls them?

                      {"commentId":7491000,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"fisherlady-1"}
                        #18.2 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:04 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":7491399,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                        Nofluer

                        vol #18.2

                        In Saudi Arabia it's actually NOT Islam, at least what is commonly understood to be Islam by most people today. They claim to be Sunni, but they're not. They're actually a sect named Wahhabi and although they pay lip service to Islam, they don't seem to follow too many of it's tenants, and sure don't have any trouble killing fellow Muslims - and would very much like to destroy all Muslim holy sites and shrines.

                        They say Muslim, they are Wahhabi

                        http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/gulf/wahhabi.htm

                        {"commentId":7491399,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                        • 2 votes
                        #18.3 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:49 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":7491574,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
                        Scott Isaacs

                        Nofleur:

                        Well, the House of Saud mostly just keeps up appearances. LOL

                        The Saud wield great power because of their control of Mecca and Medina in the Islamic world and great power in the rest of the world because of their oil reserves. It is an amount of power that has shaped the world as we know it today.

                        {"commentId":7491574,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
                        • 2 votes
                        #18.4 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:06 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":7501993,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                        krishna-167929

                        That's not Islam, it's the people who control Saudi Arabia.

                        And who, pray tell, do you think controls them?

                        I can hear some paranoid's mind right now thinking "the Jews control the Saudis"...LOL :)

                        {"commentId":7501993,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                        • 3 votes
                        #18.5 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 9:45 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        {"commentId":7478839,"authorDomain":"rachaelmm"}
                        RachaelMM

                        Blaise, I believe this is the first time I've read your work and I was prepared, on reading the title and first paragraph or so, to be indignantly offended. I'll admit a few lines ruffled my feathers a touch, but I'm very pleased that I read the entire article because -- though I need to take some time to digest it a bit for substance, and to look into a few things to inform myself better -- it is very well written and engaging.

                        Thanks.

                        {"commentId":7478839,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"rachaelmm"}
                        • 5 votes
                        Reply#19 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 9:45 AM EDT
                        {"commentId":7479124,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                        Bill Harrison

                        I just wish my friend Blaise wrote here more often. He used to in the old days but not anymore as he doesn't suffer fools easily which is a trait he shares with me. Please go to his column and read some of his pieces on Pashtun culture and the like. Very enlightening.

                        {"commentId":7479124,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                        • 7 votes
                        #19.1 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:04 AM EDT
                        {"commentId":7479265,"authorDomain":"rachaelmm"}
                        RachaelMM

                        It's enjoyable to read things that are well-written. Sometimes, even more so if you don't agree. Which is not to say I won't agree with what Blaise writes; but if I don't, I can't stay that I'll mind, if this is indicative of his writing.

                        {"commentId":7479265,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"rachaelmm"}
                        • 3 votes
                        #19.2 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:14 AM EDT
                        Reply
                        {"commentId":7480832,"authorDomain":"klovis46"}
                        Schwinn MasterDeleted
                        {"commentId":7481164,"authorDomain":"jibade7"}
                        JoMan

                        After so many months of reading the hateful and anti-social and anti-American right wing attacks on this forum, and in the news on American Citizens. I have come to the conclusion that if Obama is a muslim, which he isn't, but if he was, he is doing a hell of a lot more for America and human beings than any of you so called America loving republicans are. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

                        {"commentId":7481164,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"jibade7"}
                          Reply#21 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:56 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":7481307,"authorDomain":"klovis46"}
                          Schwinn MasterDeleted
                          {"commentId":7481485,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          Bill Harrison

                          JoMan, if you think the author of this article is a "rightwing republican" you're about as dumb as your comment indicates.

                          {"commentId":7481485,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          • 7 votes
                          #21.2 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 12:13 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7482593,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                          Nofluer

                          Joman #21

                          doing a hell of a lot more for America and human beings

                          Is this a typo? It's GOTTA be a typo. I'm SURE you meant to say "doing TO America..."

                          {"commentId":7482593,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                          • 4 votes
                          #21.3 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 1:06 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7484764,"authorDomain":"neoconstant"}
                          E.D.Kain

                          The author of this article is a rightwing republican liberal democrat. So there.

                          {"commentId":7484764,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"neoconstant"}
                          • 6 votes
                          #21.4 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 2:50 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7485584,"authorDomain":"blai"}
                          BlaiseP

                          ED Kain: Guilty as charged.

                          Call it Bill Harrison's bad influence, haha...

                          {"commentId":7485584,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"blai"}
                          • 4 votes
                          #21.5 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 3:33 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7491980,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          Bill Harrison

                          I freely admit that I'm "under the influence" -- of friendship and learning.

                          {"commentId":7491980,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          • 3 votes
                          #21.6 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:51 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7502073,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                          krishna-167929

                          Well...at least he's not being unfairly persecuted (unlike some people we know).

                          {"commentId":7502073,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                          • 1 vote
                          #21.7 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 9:52 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7503537,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          Bill Harrison

                          krishna, put a cork in it. Alright? Goddamit. This ain't the place for that

                          {"commentId":7503537,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          • 1 vote
                          #21.8 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 11:54 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7503542,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                          Nofluer

                          Someone's being UNFAIRLY persecuted? oooh! Sounds like fun!

                          {"commentId":7503542,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                          • 3 votes
                          #21.9 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 11:54 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7504442,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                          krishna-167929

                          krishna, put a cork in it. Alright? Goddamit. This ain't the place for that

                          Sure-- no problem :)

                          {"commentId":7504442,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                          • 1 vote
                          #21.10 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 2:01 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":7504451,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                          krishna-167929

                          Someone's being UNFAIRLY persecuted? oooh! Sounds like fun!

                          Well, actually it has been a heckuva lot of fun.

                          But Bill is right-- that's irrelevant here. (And I have to admit that this is one of the best discussiojs we've had on NV in a while-- sorry for that...carry on!)

                          {"commentId":7504451,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #21.11 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 2:03 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          {"commentId":7481815,"authorDomain":"gedanken"}
                          gedanken_1

                          Barack Obama said Islam was not the enemy. This is not true. Islam makes no apology: its aim is to subdue the entire world to itself.

                          How?

                          The Islamic nations are economically poor and militarily weak. The GDP of all Arab nations is equivalent to that of Spain. The importance of Islam is that it lies in the underbelly of China.

                          {"commentId":7481815,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"gedanken"}
                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#22 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 12:30 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7505686,"authorDomain":"kpr37"}
                          kpr37

                          Barack Obama said Islam was not the enemy. This is not true. Islam makes no apology: its aim is to subdue the entire world to itself.

                          How?

                          The Islamic nations are economically poor and militarily weak.

                          it's helpful to read this little quote from the "Qur'anic Concept of war" by Brigadier General S. K. Malik of the Pakistani Army.

                          “The universalism of Islam, in its all-embracing creed, is imposed on the believers as a continuous process of warfare, psychological and political, if not strictly military. . . . The Jihad, accordingly, may be stated as a doctrine of a permanent state of war, not continuous fighting.”2
                          — Majid Khadduri

                          funny he does not think "Jihad" is a peaceful struggle within one's own mind

                          as Obama just said America is not at war with Islam.Yet many Muslims are in point of fact engaged in a Jihad aginst America.

                          http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/06winter/win-ess.htm

                          {"commentId":7505686,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kpr37"}
                          • 3 votes
                          #22.1 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 8:21 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":7505817,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                          Nofluer

                          kpr #22.1

                          I've heard some few Muslims say that the concept of jihad has been perverted. I'm not an Islamic scholar so I don't have a dog in that fight, but the way the guy explained it is that "jihad" simply means "struggle" and it applies principally to the self-struggle to follow God and to do the right things as opposed to following self and the bad parts of the world such as greed and treachery. If this is true, then there are a LOT of Muslims who are losing the fight!

                          Christianity also puts forth this struggle teaching - but the Christians believe that God will help them with it - they don't have to do it on their own. They are given the Holy Spirit to guide them and to empower them against evil.

                          This is a good picture of the theological background and differences between Islam and Christianity/Judaism. Scripturally, Issac was the child of faith, the child of God's kept promise to Abraham and Sara. Ishmael was the child of unbelief - the child of the flesh. So the seed of Isacc inherits the things that are spiritual, the seed of Ishmael inherits the things of the flesh. The Messiah who brings God's forgiveness comes through the lineage of Issac.

                          {"commentId":7505817,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"nofluer"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #22.2 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 8:44 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":7505868,"authorDomain":"kpr37"}
                          kpr37

                          I'm not an Islamic scholar so I don't have a dog in that fight, but the way the guy explained it is that "jihad" simply means "struggle" and it applies principally to the self-struggle to follow God and to do the right things as opposed to following self and the bad parts of the world such as greed and treachery.

                          http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/019.smt.html

                          {"commentId":7505868,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kpr37"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #22.3 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 8:52 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":7505913,"authorDomain":"kpr37"}
                          kpr37

                          here is an article from the middle east,and how Jihad should not be misunderstood.

                          http://kpr37.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/20/2570073-jihad-is-a-duty-not-terrorism-

                          {"commentId":7505913,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"kpr37"}
                          • 2 votes
                          #22.4 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 9:00 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          {"commentId":7493261,"authorDomain":"rootboyslim"}
                          Root Boy SlimDeleted
                          {"commentId":7495215,"authorDomain":"FunkyThang"}
                          Funky Thang

                          The idea that the US is at war with Islam has fodder for radicals to used to convert and fund terrorism. This speach is nothing but a means to stop the flow of people and money to terrorist organizations. I feel safer because of it. It was a more intelligent response than anything from the Bush administration in eight years.

                          {"commentId":7495215,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"FunkyThang"}
                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#24 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 10:47 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":7502088,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                          krishna-167929

                          I feel safer because of it.

                          Were you actually feeling all that unsafe before?

                          {"commentId":7502088,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
                          • 4 votes
                          Reply#25 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 9:53 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7505512,"authorDomain":"FunkyThang"}
                          Funky Thang

                          Not of terrorists but the fear mongering that was the rational for starting two wars and for us to give up our right to privacy and the bankrupting of the govenrment.

                          Terrorists are a bunch of pussies. They have to blow up a bomb to get their point across, so their ideas must be pretty weak. I am not afraid of them.

                          I am much more afraid of fear mongering and having my rights taken away.

                          {"commentId":7505512,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"FunkyThang"}
                          • 1 vote
                          #25.1 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 7:45 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":7505548,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          Bill Harrison

                          Have you tried adult diapers?

                          {"commentId":7505548,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          • 4 votes
                          #25.2 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 7:54 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":7505577,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
                          Scott Isaacs

                          We didn't start Afghanistan... we proceeded along a logical line. I wanted then, and now, to have our warships return home with bin Laden's head attached to a bow and then his lieutenants for the smaller ships. The "Shall Not Perish" or the "Big Stick" should get bin Laden's head when it becomes available.

                          {"commentId":7505577,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
                          • 3 votes
                          #25.3 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 8:00 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          {"commentId":7510745,"authorDomain":"iqballatif"}
                          iqbal.latif

                          Excellent

                          {"commentId":7510745,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"iqballatif"}
                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#26 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 4:34 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":7510851,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          Bill Harrison

                          As a perspicacious commentator on these issues I knew you would find this article of interest my friend.

                          {"commentId":7510851,"threadId":"595370","contentId":"2896455","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
                          • 1 vote
                          #26.1 - Sun Jun 7, 2009 4:45 PM EDT
                          Reply
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